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	<title>Comments on: Polyandry now!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/2008/07/15/polyandry-now-2/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/2008/07/15/polyandry-now-2/</link>
	<description>Secularism, religion, and the public sphere</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alfred Schnittke</title>
		<link>http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/2008/07/15/polyandry-now-2/#comment-4839</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred Schnittke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/?p=287#comment-4839</guid>
		<description>Do you support polygamy, then?  Or do you support a recognition among the general population of relationships other than monogamous unions (both heterosexual and homosexual) as possible and permitted?  I can't think that a significant number of people would desire such relationships for themselves; and aren't they already possible, with the existence of swingers' clubs and internet dating sites, among other things?  It seems as though few people would ever even care.  FLDS members would likely be relatively free to live as they wished without judgment, with any possible combination of wives and children in one house, if they did not so clearly distinguish and isolate themselves in compounds and communities.  Perhaps the fact that legal recognition of relationships continues to be restricted to monogamous couples is not an expression of political sovereignty, but an effect of the lack of interest most people have in joining such complex and possibly transitory relationships as butt huts and communes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you support polygamy, then?  Or do you support a recognition among the general population of relationships other than monogamous unions (both heterosexual and homosexual) as possible and permitted?  I can&#8217;t think that a significant number of people would desire such relationships for themselves; and aren&#8217;t they already possible, with the existence of swingers&#8217; clubs and internet dating sites, among other things?  It seems as though few people would ever even care.  FLDS members would likely be relatively free to live as they wished without judgment, with any possible combination of wives and children in one house, if they did not so clearly distinguish and isolate themselves in compounds and communities.  Perhaps the fact that legal recognition of relationships continues to be restricted to monogamous couples is not an expression of political sovereignty, but an effect of the lack of interest most people have in joining such complex and possibly transitory relationships as butt huts and communes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Casas Klausen</title>
		<link>http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/2008/07/15/polyandry-now-2/#comment-4468</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Casas Klausen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/?p=287#comment-4468</guid>
		<description>Thank you.  I think you're correct to say that my post reveals (and, I hope, enhances) a tension between the critical and progressive lefts.  I do not shy away from affiliating myself with the former, and I consider it an honor to find myself at odds with Rorty and his boosters on this and a number of other issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.  I think you&#8217;re correct to say that my post reveals (and, I hope, enhances) a tension between the critical and progressive lefts.  I do not shy away from affiliating myself with the former, and I consider it an honor to find myself at odds with Rorty and his boosters on this and a number of other issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Dain Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/2008/07/15/polyandry-now-2/#comment-3815</link>
		<dc:creator>Dain Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/?p=287#comment-3815</guid>
		<description>This post gets to the heart of the tension between what Rorty called the "critical left" and the "progressive left". I'll recite here, via Wikipedia:

&lt;i&gt;He criticizes the critical Left, which is exemplified by post-structuralists such as Michel Foucault and postmodernists such as Jean-François Lyotard. Although these intellectuals make insightful claims about the ills of society, Rorty holds that they provide no alternatives and even present progress as problematic at times. On the other hand, the progressive Left, exemplified for Rorty by John Dewey, makes progress its priority in its goal of "achieving our country." Rorty sees the progressive Left as acting in the philosophical spirit of pragmatism.&lt;/i&gt;

Though I think a criticism can be leveled here against him. Without the critical left, how do we know what "progress" entails? Do those in California who enthusiastically support the legal recognition of same-sex marriage think they are advocating progress? Quite certainly. Though you disagree. I'd place you in the camp of the Critical Left.

Is the drive for same sex-marriage progressive? It depends on how one looks at it. If one believes that the drive for same-sex marriage amounts to only the &lt;i&gt;extension&lt;/i&gt; of monogamous normativity, then it's at best a horizontal move, so to speak, supportive of the status quo (albeit more inclusive). Not "progressive." However, if one believes it to be more fundamentally an &lt;i&gt;upset&lt;/i&gt; to that same monogamous normativity, by placing more weight on the feature of &lt;i&gt;same-sex&lt;/i&gt;, rather than that of &lt;i&gt;monogamous&lt;/i&gt;, then it's a vertical move up the ladder of "progress." 

(Though the above ignores the existence of the gay community [I'm not ingratiated enough with progressives to be comfortable using "queer"] that is &lt;i&gt;uninterested&lt;/i&gt; in monogamous same-sex marriage, and whose interests may very well be weighted higher than those advocating for the new law, especially as they are probably lower in socio-economic status.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post gets to the heart of the tension between what Rorty called the &#8220;critical left&#8221; and the &#8220;progressive left&#8221;. I&#8217;ll recite here, via Wikipedia:</p>
<p><i>He criticizes the critical Left, which is exemplified by post-structuralists such as Michel Foucault and postmodernists such as Jean-François Lyotard. Although these intellectuals make insightful claims about the ills of society, Rorty holds that they provide no alternatives and even present progress as problematic at times. On the other hand, the progressive Left, exemplified for Rorty by John Dewey, makes progress its priority in its goal of &#8220;achieving our country.&#8221; Rorty sees the progressive Left as acting in the philosophical spirit of pragmatism.</i></p>
<p>Though I think a criticism can be leveled here against him. Without the critical left, how do we know what &#8220;progress&#8221; entails? Do those in California who enthusiastically support the legal recognition of same-sex marriage think they are advocating progress? Quite certainly. Though you disagree. I&#8217;d place you in the camp of the Critical Left.</p>
<p>Is the drive for same sex-marriage progressive? It depends on how one looks at it. If one believes that the drive for same-sex marriage amounts to only the <i>extension</i> of monogamous normativity, then it&#8217;s at best a horizontal move, so to speak, supportive of the status quo (albeit more inclusive). Not &#8220;progressive.&#8221; However, if one believes it to be more fundamentally an <i>upset</i> to that same monogamous normativity, by placing more weight on the feature of <i>same-sex</i>, rather than that of <i>monogamous</i>, then it&#8217;s a vertical move up the ladder of &#8220;progress.&#8221; </p>
<p>(Though the above ignores the existence of the gay community [I'm not ingratiated enough with progressives to be comfortable using "queer"] that is <i>uninterested</i> in monogamous same-sex marriage, and whose interests may very well be weighted higher than those advocating for the new law, especially as they are probably lower in socio-economic status.)</p>
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